Curse

bilateralrope · Mar 06, 2007, 09:55 AM // 09:55

In factions I took the assassin henchs a few times, they didn't work that well so I used other henchs. I tried giving Zenmai the build I use on my assassin, that went worse than the henchs as she kept running in with the warrior except she had a speed boost so got to the enemies first. This wouldn't be the first build I've had that works well when I use it, but the heroes completely screw it up, so it might just be the build thats the problem.

So are there any uses for her in PvE, or should I just stick to the other heroes ?

I don't like micromanaging heroes, which could also be the problem.

gg-gl-hf · Mar 06, 2007, 10:14 AM // 10:14

I use some of my Zenmai's to shut down / interrupt foes in caster-heavy areas (A/W with 'Skull Crack' and silencing daggers), others are set up as genuine damage dealers (A/N with 'Plague Touch'). In any case, they're usually survivors, unless being spiked by several powerful foes.
They don't contribute as much to team success as other classes, though, so I usually prefer different heroes.

Gwondolas Marillion · Mar 06, 2007, 10:19 AM // 10:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by bilateralrope

In factions I took the assassin henchs a few times, they didn't work that well so I used other henchs. I tried giving Zenmai the build I use on my assassin, that went worse than the henchs as she kept running in with the warrior except she had a speed boost so got to the enemies first. This wouldn't be the first build I've had that works well when I use it, but the heroes completely screw it up, so it might just be the build thats the problem.

So are there any uses for her in PvE, or should I just stick to the other heroes ?

I don't like micromanaging heroes, which could also be the problem.

Since I haven't played an assassin primary myself, and not much with assassin as secondary, I noticed I had a slight shortage of assassin skills. However, I found this Assassin/Ranger Critical Barrager Build on GuildWiki and Zenmai makes good use of it. Try it out!

/Gwon

DeanBB · Mar 06, 2007, 05:08 PM // 17:08

I use all mine as BP crit barragers and they do quite well.

Don Zardeone · Mar 06, 2007, 06:13 PM // 18:13

Zenmai is like the third ranger hero for most people.

Turbobusa · Mar 06, 2007, 08:43 PM // 20:43

I use her with my order nec o_O, locust fury + gfte + find their weakness.
pretty effective

strcpy · Mar 06, 2007, 08:58 PM // 20:58

I use her mostly as a critical barrager.

Almost anything that requires knowledge of the the layout of the battle field isn't going to work. So most shadow stepping stuff is out - about the only one that *may* work are ones that shadow step to spirits assuming all of your are laid down in the back lines (I've never tried it). Otherwise the assassin tends to shadow step in to the fight first or shadow step and aggro another large group - neither of which is good. Of course, you may micromanage this quite well, but like you I hate doing that.

Think back to when you played through factions - were there any assassin mob that did particularly well compared to the others? Not really, however I noticed a few shadow stepping into me or some rushing ahead like you explained.

The "best" of the hero AI with assassins are fairly simple ones - cheap fast recharge attack chains, spreading conditions, or bringing some of the interrupting attack chains. They were generally the assassins that didn't die instantly when you encounter them in PvE but you normally found too little a threat to bother with until the end. Other than that - the critical barrager is quite nice. Equally as good as a barrage ranger, maybe even better.

zling · Mar 07, 2007, 07:20 PM // 19:20

as others have suggested here a critical barrager is your best choice. however if you're not into the whole barrage thingy you can turn him into a utility character with deadly arts and a secondary profession, make sure to bring defensive skills for him from either critical strikes/shadow arts/secondary profession

cyberjanet · Mar 08, 2007, 07:08 AM // 07:08

This is an interesting suggestion and I think I'll try it on Zenmai. I have an assassin character that I play occasionally and the critical barrager is by far the build I most enjoy playing. Never thought of using it on Zenmai, though. Doh!

DarkSpirit · May 08, 2008, 11:34 PM // 23:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by zling

as others have suggested here a critical barrager is your best choice. however if you're not into the whole barrage thingy you can turn him into a utility character with deadly arts and a secondary profession, make sure to bring defensive skills for him from either critical strikes/shadow arts/secondary profession

Maybe the latest update would have improved the assassin hero AI?:

Quote:

Originally Posted by New Update

Fixed a bug that caused Assassin Heroes to occasionally attempt to use dagger skills when they did not yet meet the combo requirements.

Are dagger assassins finally usable?

zwei2stein · May 09, 2008, 07:46 AM // 07:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Are dagger assassins finally usable?

AI still does not make good spiker or DB/MS spammer. They dont do necesary chaining.

If you really wan't sin hero, crit x is still better than daggers. And its still not good enough to become better than primary. (We could debate on matter of scythe sins thou.)

cellardweller · May 09, 2008, 08:20 AM // 08:20

All melee AI is buggered due to thier inablity to position themselves, the fact that they autoattack is just the icing on the cake. Until this is fixed zenmai, anton, komanu, jora, koss and goren aren't good for anthing other than carrying spare weapon sets (melonni is luck enough to run orders

)

odly · May 09, 2008, 05:28 PM // 17:28

Excellent corpse provider for Olias, he's been asking : "Can we take Zenmai please ? I promise to keep death nova on her permanently".

stretchs · May 09, 2008, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by odly

Excellent corpse provider for Olias, he's been asking : "Can we take Zenmai please ? I promise to keep death nova on her permanently".

/winthread
12chars

sph0nz · May 09, 2008, 05:36 PM // 17:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by odly

Excellent corpse provider for Olias, he's been asking : "Can we take Zenmai please ? I promise to keep death nova on her permanently".

That's what most PvE assassin's are. However, Zenmai could be used to hero fast faction farm as well [as well as other heroes]. Since melee AI is kinda bad, I think that a critical barrager could work well, as stated above.

MisterB · May 09, 2008, 05:40 PM // 17:40

I like Zenmai in PvE. She has two arms to hold my loot, but she never gets to join the party. There's no reason to set her up for critical Barrage if players have NF and GW:EN.

Cathode_Reborn · May 09, 2008, 08:33 PM // 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterB

There's no reason to set her up for critical Barrage if players have NF and GW:EN.

I also see no reason for being a Crit barrager. It's just an inferior ranger replacement or some bad excuse to use a sin hero.

I honestly can't really think of any good reason to use a sin hero. The only build I used on one was Moebius/Blossom with Flail and Distracting Blow, which would get recharged by Moebius. That was ages ago and I never used a sin hero since then.

snaek · May 09, 2008, 08:42 PM // 20:42

well if u want to improve ur teams hawtness rating, zenmai is teh way to go 0__o

u could bring locusts fury + critical eye @ crit=13 & zealous daggers

this will give her infinite energy to spam wutever high-energy spammable cost skills u can think of
(preferably 1/4s or 1/2s cast ones...prot spirit + spirit bond perhaps?)

legacyofkain85 · May 09, 2008, 08:46 PM // 20:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by bilateralrope

In factions I took the assassin henchs a few times, they didn't work that well so I used other henchs. I tried giving Zenmai the build I use on my assassin, that went worse than the henchs as she kept running in with the warrior except she had a speed boost so got to the enemies first. This wouldn't be the first build I've had that works well when I use it, but the heroes completely screw it up, so it might just be the build thats the problem.

So are there any uses for her in PvE, or should I just stick to the other heroes ?

I don't like micromanaging heroes, which could also be the problem.

cant expect a hero to run a build like u would normally would,if u want a working build for assassin and want to use daggers try out a combo that involves only 1 dual atack and moebius strike(yes assassin hero does know how to use death blossom+moebius)in lower end parts of pve(areas where mobs arent level 25+)scythe sin works good.

legacyofkain85 · May 09, 2008, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

well if u want to improve ur teams hawtness rating, zenmai is teh way to go 0__o

u could bring locusts fury + critical eye @ crit=13 & zealous daggers

this will give her infinite energy to spam wutever high-energy spammable cost skills u can think of
(preferably 1/4s or 1/2s cast ones...prot spirit + spirit bond perhaps?)

i used to use locust fury+critical agility +critical eye just to achieve a lot of this
,acompanied by a curses necro ofc,i bet he enjoyed all the yellow numbers from barbs and /or mark of pain